[00:00:00] Speaker A: What if I told you that the secret to breakthrough marketing isn't actually in the latest growth hack or AI tool, but instead is found in a lesson from Casablanca and A Crying Wife at.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: A trade show booth.
[00:00:11] Speaker A: Today's guest went from being a Disney artist to becoming a marketing executive who helped brands like Little Giant Ladder Systems capture massive market share by doing something most marketers just don't do actually. Listen.
Matt Frisby is about to share why feeling understood is the sexiest feeling in the universe and how that one insight can transform your entire marketing approach. Stay tuned.
Hello everyone. I am Paxton Gray, CEO of 97th Floor. 97th Floor is a digital marketing agency designed to build world class organic and paid channel strategies for mid level and enterprise organizations. Thank you for joining us today for another episode of the campaign where we talk with marketing leaders about better knowing your audience, innovating beyond best practice, and converting visitors into customers. You can find past episodes of the campaign on YouTube, iTunes, Spotify,
[email protected].
Today we're going to dive deep into the art of storytelling and marketing with someone who spent his entire career growing brands with stories.
Matt Frisby started his career as a classically trained illustrator working at Disney before finding his way into marketing where he discovered that brands can tell stories just as powerful as any movie. As CMO at companies like Blendtec and Little Giant Ladders, Matt has overseen marketing strategies that move products and move people. He's currently leading marketing at Axomo and a leader in swag management and employee engagement. In our conversation today, you're going to hear about the time a couple's fight in a trade show booth led to a breakthrough marketing campaign.
How Matt built a multicam studio during COVID that got Zoom asking questions, and why he believes advertising is the highest form of art.
He'll also talk about why most marketers are playing it too safe and missing the real opportunity to connect with their customers on a deeper level.
This is a masterclass in taking calculated risks, doing the deep research work that most people skip, and why feeling understood by a brand is what drives real customer loyalty. Let's get into it.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: Awesome, Matt, take two.
[00:02:28] Speaker C: Super excited to have you here. Thank you for joining us today.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: Absolutely. I'm glad to be here, man. It's good to see you.
[00:02:34] Speaker C: So let's start off. I think you have one of the most interesting backgrounds of most people I know in marketing. So like, let's take it through. Like, tell us to how you got to this point.
[00:02:45] Speaker B: Cool. Yeah. Grew up in Southern California, was a Classically trained artist, played sports in high school, and I thought I was going to be a Disney artist. That was my. My vision. I was a good illustrator. Not a great one, but a good one.
Went to school for illustration, thinking that was going to be what I did. And as I developed, I kept getting better and better. I ended up getting a job at Disney during high school as part of the Disney Academy, which is like the Disney College program, but for high school. Great program, wildly eye opening.
I came from a pretty poor background. Just parents trying, but just not like a big opportunity for education. I kind of had to take that in the bull by my horns. And so when I got hired at Disney, I was like, no way. You know? And so I started out as a performer. And that was kind of a funny story of how that happened. But I. It was kind of this odd moment where I got invited to an audition. I have no dance background at all. Some cute friends are like, hey, do you want to come to an audition? And I'm like, sure. And so I got there and I was like, whoa. You know, you guys are like actual dancers. I don't even know what choreography means. And then I got cast because I was 6 2, and I could move.
And so it was the best college job of all time because I got to perform at Disneyland. And you only work half a day because you do a show and it's down for a half an hour, you do a show. So for homework, I was just charging through my homework between shows.
And then I got an opportunity to apply for the art department at the resort, and I got hired. And then I thought I died and gone to heaven. And I was like, I haven't graduated college yet. Like, box checked. And it was so neat to be a Disney artist to work on Disney things.
I was seriously enamored. And the Disney artists I work for were so much further ahead and, like, really seasoned artisans of every type of art. And just I was blown away and super humbled at how far I still had to go thinking that I had some skill. I'm like, I'm such a rookie. I have so much to learn. We had the opportunity to work on the Pirates of the Caribbean, like the movie premiere, and all the things we were aging swords for like, like a year, you know, and it was the longest red carpet in the history of Hollywood.
And so when you do things for Disney, they do nothing small.
I learned a lot about experiences and showmanship and a lot of that. And so towards my seventh year working there, I realized that this company is so great. It's hard to move up, especially if you're just waiting. I had a degree, I had, I was skilled, I was doing good. But my manager had been in his role for 15 years and hadn't promoted in 15 years. And he was good.
And the hard thing was, is that he was doing good, but so was everybody else. And so I know it's a challenge they face, but I was like, I think I'm going to go try something else.
And so I had an opportunity to work in Hollywood for a minute. And as soon as that started developing, there was several strikes and it was really difficult to succeed. We'd sold a film, meaning we got production rights.
And that was a kind of a funny story. But I learned a lot about selling an idea.
And most people don't know this, but a script is the business plan for a film.
And so Disney taught me these great experiences working with a couple filmmakers and then selling a film. When you think about it, they look at it as like, is this a date night movie? Is this horror? Is this like, where does it fit in our product cycle? And so we found one that was a great date night movie. And it was a small budget, but hey, we sold the film in Hollywood. That was 2007 and it was downhill from there. Things just kept falling apart. And when the strike happened, it wasn't that like the industry ended. Imagine like a retailer has to close for two weeks. What do I do with my inventory, what do I do with my products? I have to reorganize what goes where. So new products are going to be on hold for a minute. And so by the time it got reshuffled, we had kind of run out of resources and it just didn't work. And so that was a four year adventure there. So Disney was showmanship, experiences, brand Hollywood was storytelling. It was like, literally, how do I keep your interest, take you through a story and you enjoy popcorn sitting at this theater. The theaters are super involved in what gets made. So these were really valuable experiences. And at that time, I was really discouraged of how much effort and energy I put into something that I was passionate about. And it, it didn't work. And I wasn't ready to go back to Disney. They had invited me to come back for a couple roles and meaning like production roles, not in their performance. But it just didn't make the money I was looking for. And so a friend of mine, we were praying a lot actually of like, what, what should we do? You know? And a friend of mine was like, hey, do you want to come work with me? You know, it was like 18 minutes after I finished my prayer too. So I was kind of like, it's really fast, you know? And he was a creative director at a local marketing company called One on One Marketing.
[00:07:30] Speaker C: This is in California.
[00:07:31] Speaker B: This is here. So. Oh, sorry. I had moved to Utah by this point, and so my entire family's here, and every year they're like, when are you coming? And I'm like, I'm not, you know, so we moved to Utah in 09 and then my partner at. He became my partner. He invited me to come work with him. And so he was a brilliant creative.
And I said, my man, like, I don't even know what SEO is. Like, I don't know how I can help you. And he's like, well, I'm afraid to talk to people. And I was like, well, I'm not. Oh, you need help selling. And he's like, bingo. And I'm like, I got it. And so I was on a fast track of conversion optimization, you know, web dev creative. So his name is Ryan Sharp and he is lights out. He's so good. Such a brilliant mind. It was easy to sell because Ryan was so amazing. And so I fell in love with entrepreneurs at that point. And so I still didn't really know what marketing was, but I loved listening to everybody's like, business, you know, And I solved this problem. I solved this problem and I was like, wow, this is cool, you know, to listen to. Like, we need you to help us tell this story. And whether it was accounting or a legal service or a product company, just listening to their stories, I was like, man, this is so fun. Like, look at all these people putting their dreams out here, pulling money out of their back pocket to start something.
So startups and entrepreneurship just caught my attention in such a huge way because I loved the format of storytelling and I thought it had to be delivered with film. But brands and products tell a different story of solving our problem and as marketers, us solving theirs. And I just was so enamored with entrepreneurship of like solving a problem with a business, you know, and that opened my eyes and I was like, I can take my skill of, you know, creativity and storytelling and turn it into an operation to help them make money.
And so I fell in love with it super fast. And I was like, I found my thing and I was pumped at that point.
[00:09:22] Speaker C: Yeah. So, yeah, so cool.
[00:09:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:25] Speaker C: So you.
That skill of taking like the. The creative and storytelling moving into marketing, I feel like I've Mean, I've worked with you on a number of projects.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: I've.
[00:09:38] Speaker C: Yeah, I've been able to see firsthand your skill at saying, like, let's think outside the box here. How can we, you know, know, give them a really cool experience, tell a really great story?
I think storytelling in marketing is one of those things that's widely accepted as, yes, everyone. You know, you say you need to get better at storytelling, and everyone's going to nod their head, you know, but in my experience, I would guess that maybe 5% or less of people in the industry actually apply it or pursue that.
What do you feel like, in your experience is holding people back from being. Being better storytellers when it comes to, like, marketing?
[00:10:16] Speaker B: That's a great question. And I think what was weird for me is that I had this great story training and just assumed everybody else knew it too. And so it is a skill and there is training for it. And I think that we confuse, like, calls to action, you know, positioning statements of storytelling, and it's not.
And so when you can, like, unpack the whole journey, like, from the problem to the solution, there's such a story to tell for any business.
To me, the best book on story, and we talked about this before, but is story by Robert McKee. And so that's the book on storytelling. There's lots of great books on storytelling, but in school in illustration, they taught us very in depth about the statement that a picture is worth a thousand words. Well, as an illustrator, I'm creating a picture from scratch. Like, I will dictate what's going to happen in this image. I'm going to tell you a story by design. Same with the photographer, but photographer capture what is. I'm going to create what is.
And so we had to learn a lot about. What are you saying? You know, if you put a figure in, you know, alone with a lot of negative space, you create the feeling of being alone.
If you put the person around a lot of food, that means love. If you have tension, you know, there, that creates angst. If there's, you know, you know, lines that are pointing to someone, it creates attention, you know, and so there's illustration as complicated as any industry. Yeah, there's so much technical ability around it. So we read the book story by Robert McKee. He breaks down the movie Casablanca. And Casablanca is a great movie. I wouldn't call it one of my top 10, though. Right. Like, there's a lot of great movies out there, but Robert breaks down Casablanca as the best movie ever made because it's the best job at telling a story. It doesn't mean it's the best story. It does the best job of telling a story, of moving a narrative with characters, with supporting characters set, you know, shot selection, timing. And he talks a lot about the supporting cast. And so when you have the two love interests that are trying to recapture their feelings, you have, you know, outside characters complimenting, you know, the man and complimenting the woman or warning them and. And their dialogue is less important at that point as, like, you know, Rick, you're the best. You know, he's. He's the most honorable. He has integrity. The character doesn't say that about himself, but there's, like, third party validation happening. And so as a viewer, you're watching this story unfold, and it takes you through the whole hero's journey.
And when you can get to that end that you got the crescendo and the change and the resolve, you're always like, ah. And you're so excited to have participated in a story.
And most people don't know this about Disneyland. Disneyland is the same concept. So if you were to describe Disneyland, how would you describe it?
[00:13:15] Speaker C: Fun? Nostalgic.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: Yep. And you're not wrong. People would say theme park or a carnival. That's permanent, right? Like, because in many ways it is. And when Walt pitched Disney, people were like, you want to do what? Like, put some corporate offices up and let's, you know, make some money on that and build some equity. And he said, no, I want a completely different experience. And so as a child, Walt would watch animations or films and have the desire to be there.
What if I could be inside of a movie, walking around with the characters in the film?
That's Disneyland. Frontierland, you're walking around a western with the characters from the film. In Tomorrowland, you're walking around a Sci Fi with the characters from a sci Fi. In Adventureland, you're walking around the jungles of Africa with characters. And so you got to be in any movie you want, and you just walk to the next movie. And so now that you see Disneyland in that way, it's a totally different experience.
And they have kept that, like, origin story and the genesis that made Disneyland in every Disney park.
And so if you think about you're walking on a movie, it's a totally different experience. And they design everything from that lens of how can I be in the story? And what makes them a great storytelling company is they want you to be a participant in the story. And that's what Robert Talks about. And so if you come back to a marketing perspective, it's a show.
From websites to ads to merchandising, to the product itself, you know, and how you review it and, you know, all the supporting collateral. I want to participate in this journey.
So that is no small thing. And to architect a journey is quite a lot. And I don't know many CEOs that are on board with that level of patience. But the brands that are smashing it tell a story, and you can feel it, you can see it.
And because it works, this is not just like, this would be fun. It's also a good financial strategy. Right. Is that as a consumer, I'm wrapped up in your story. Not the one or two products that you have to offer, and you then have the permission to be marketed to because you've captured me. I want to participate in your story.
It's a real skill, and the best of the best do it.
[00:15:32] Speaker C: Yeah. So in my experience, from what I've seen is there's, like. You're familiar with the Uncalli. Uncanny valley, right?
[00:15:39] Speaker B: I'm not. Yeah.
[00:15:41] Speaker C: So, like, 3D animation.
[00:15:43] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:15:43] Speaker C: There's, like, when you animate a human there, as you get closer and closer to. To human, like, you reach this point where people are okay with what they're looking at, and then once it gets too close, but it's not there, it reaches this uncanny, uncanny valley where it's, like, disturbing right before you finally reach, like, lifelike.
[00:16:03] Speaker B: Right.
That was the Christmas movie with the train.
[00:16:08] Speaker C: All those movies are a little bit. Yeah.
And I feel like I've seen a similar. Like if we graphed it out, where there is kind of like the. What I might say is, like, mediocre, but, like, I'm putting food on the table kind of marketing. You know, I'm optimizing my CTAs, or, you know, I'm getting the site up.
[00:16:28] Speaker B: Or whatever, which is a thing. It's a thing.
[00:16:30] Speaker C: Right.
And then I've seen. And then, you know, the success stories on the other end of that valley of, like, look at.
I mean, a billion brands, like Death Water.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: A Liquid Death.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: Liquid Death.
[00:16:45] Speaker B: Liquid Death.
[00:16:46] Speaker C: Killing it. Right.
In that storytelling perspective.
[00:16:50] Speaker B: Literally. Canned water.
[00:16:51] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: $4 a can.
[00:16:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Take my money.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: I think there.
[00:16:55] Speaker C: There's a lot of brands that are in between those that are either, like, they're going halfway on it or they're telling a story that's, like, cute but doesn't resonate or whatever that ends up falling flat, and they just never get told the stories, right?
[00:17:14] Speaker D: Content production exploded last year thanks to AI tools, and most brands jumped on board. More content meant more chances to rank, right? Well, it's 2025 now and the game has changed dramatically. My name is Alondra Mellow.
I'm a senior Enterprise SEO specialist at Nice and Floor, and right now we're seeing reputable sites hit with serious penalties.
Google's quality guidelines are actively flagging unhelpful content, and some organizations are losing millions of monthly sessions.
Meanwhile, Google continues tightening crawl budgets across the board. And we don't even need to mention the impact of AI overuse. If your SEO efforts aren't delivering results despite investing in content, you're not alone.
The solution may not be creating more content, but strategically consolidating what you already have.
Right now, I'm giving away the tools you need to complete the same content consolidation audit that we use for our very own clients.
This audit reveals what content to consolidate or optimize to support stronger rankings, a clean experience, and higher conversions on your site. When we ran this audit for a client with an exceptional social media presence but no search authority, we used the audit recommendations increased organic revenue by 42%.
Everything you need to get started, including a video walkthrough, a Google Sheets template, and a decision matrix, is linked in the show notes.
Get that heavy content out of your way and watch your site traffic grow. If you'd like help completing the audit on your site, you can get in touch with a marketing
[email protected] LetsTalk hey.
[00:18:37] Speaker E: Everyone, it's Emma Lammy here. I produce the campaign and today I'm bringing you the latest in AI and marketing news.
First up, WordPress just gave us a glimpse into its AI future at WordCamp US 2025 in Portland. Last week, CEO Matt Mullenweg unveiled an experimental tool called Telex.
Think of telex as a WordPress specific take on vibe coding apps like Lovable. Instead of writing code, you type in a prompt and Telex spits out a plugin. You can install anything from a simple Gutenberg block to an animation for a marketing site.
Right now, Telex lives at Telex automatically. That's with two T's at the end AI and comes with a big it's experimental. Early testers say it works in some cases, but a lot of projects still need tweaks to actually run. Why is this a big deal? WordPress has always been about democratizing publishing, making it easy for anyone in any language to publish online without needing to know code. Mullenweg says AI is the next step in that mission, helping take what used to be hard and making it accessible, open source and affordable.
He admitted some parts of the AI hype cycle are scary and maybe even a bubble. But he was clear for WordPress, the opportunities are too big to ignore. Beyond Telex, Mullenweg also showed off a simple AI help assistant for WordPress and talked about ways AI browsers like Comet could connect directly with the platform. So while Telex isn't ready for primetime yet, WordPress has made it clear they want to shape how AI meets web publishing.
Next up, Google is giving retailers some new firepower ahead of the holiday shopping rush. And this time it's all about loyalty. Google just rolled out new ad features that let brands serve personalized pricing and perks to members of their loyalty programs across both free and paid shopping listings. The goal? Reward loyal shoppers and even win back lapsed customers. One big addition is a loyalty mode inside Google Ads. It lets advertisers build bidding strategies specifically designed to target high LTV customers, the people who spend more over time.
Brands can even set lower ROAS targets for these shoppers if the lifetime value justifies it. Google is also testing personalized annotations in Performance Max shopping campaigns. These highlight exclusive deals for loyalty members right inside search results. Sephora used them and saw a 20% bump in click through rates from its loyal customers.
Behind the scenes, these tools tap into customer match and first party data to make the targeting work. Google's retail ads director summed it up by saying the quote, the core of this is really creating a personalized loyalty experience versus showing the same thing to everyone. And this is just the start. Google plans to share more updates at its Think Retail event in September. If you've been online lately, you've probably run into what some are calling AI slop. Low quality AI generated videos that range from weirdly funny to flat out misinformation. And now big brands are finding their ads running right alongside it on YouTube. As Marketing Brew's Jasmine Sheena reports ads for HBO Max, Amazon Hub Delivery, Samsung, Adobe and others have been spotted on YouTube channels posting this kind of content.
One channel even published a deep fake of Pope Leo XIV praising Burkina FSO's military leader, a video that racked up over a million views before the Vatican had to respond when asked. A Google spokesperson said advertisers can control placements based on a video's content, but not how it's produced.
In other words, brands can't currently opt out of appearing next to AI generated material. After Marketing Brew flagged some of the channels, YouTube did remove a couple of them, but others remain. For advertisers, this is the latest round of a familiar headache. In the past, brand ads have shown up next to climate misinformation, racist content, and more. Even when safety tools were in place, experts warn that AI slop multiplies the risk. As Babson Colleges Anirud Debar puts it, brands need to weigh short term reach against long term reputation.
YouTube has disclosure rules for AI generated videos, but its sheer size makes enforcement tough. So for now, advertisers face a tricky balance, chasing eyeballs without ending up next to digital junk.
[00:22:40] Speaker C: Now back to the show How I think as a marketer, one of the things we need to overcome is that risk of I'm taking a swing here.
[00:22:51] Speaker A: The only way you hit a home.
[00:22:52] Speaker C: Run is if you swing. But when you swing, you have a chance to strike out.
[00:22:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:56] Speaker C: So like, what, as you've approached your career and you've taken these swings, what has been your mindset to either increase the odds of hitting a homer or overcoming just like that fear of taking that risk? And like, you know, I don't know if this is going to work out or not, but we're going to move forward.
[00:23:13] Speaker B: Yeah, great question.
I think when you make quick decisions, you make the riskiest decisions.
When you really do your homework, you practice and you prepare, you're going to be ready to tell that story. So as the CMO at Little Giant, I had a great team, a great CEO, a great, you know, history of the company. I was definitely coming in, standing on the Giant, on the shoulders of giants. Right.
So I was so excited to continue that storytelling. And most of the storytelling was about the product. It's a great product.
And so we were trying to break into a new market and trying to be seen for the professional commercial category. And so as we thought about it, we spent a lot of time with them and listened and what are they actually talking about? Thinking about what are they not talking about, what are they worried about? What are they excited about? And so spending time with this cohort, which is very liquid death cohort. What brands do they purchase? What did they buy before and after us?
And I noticed there was this amongst the majority of that industry, there was an edge about everyone.
They had to be seen as being super tough, you know, super strong and rigid, skilled, lots of lone wolves, lots of independent contractors. But, you know, and lots of tattoos. And, you know, there was several brands I paid attention to that. I'm like, okay, like this cohort, it's important for them to be seen as being dangerous. And we were selling a safety product with a safety message. And I was like, they'll never admit that they like that. They want to do the dangerous thing and then make sure that you got their, their, their background. And so that was a big thought. Like, okay. And so I started testing. Like, you know, we would go and talk to influencers in the market. And even the retailers were very price focused because they're salespeople, but the buyer is different. Like, how do you capture their heart?
And so I was getting that information and then I went to a trade show with electricians and we had all of our products and, and there was a husband, wife that was really like struggling in our booth. They were kind of getting at each other. And I was trying to distance myself, like, I don't want to be involved in your fight, please.
And he had gotten really hurt on a ladder fall. And she was really emotional. And I, they, they did get in a small fight right in front of me. And she was like, you almost didn't come home, and you almost didn't come home at all. And she's weeping and I'm sitting there like, you know, what's going on? And so he said, babe, I have to have a ladder, you know, And I said, let me show you something.
And so I honored him and honored her. And she was like, okay, you can use only this ladder, you know. And I'm like, he's going to be all right, you know. And that story had an influence. And so it's not just, you know, for our product, it's, you know, the buyer, the influencer, there's all these things. And so it came down to the buyer's, like, core need to prove themselves. And so we came out with a couple ideas, but essentially was like honoring their danger, you know. And so all of our marketing felt that way where we were respected. Like, we also found that of the 25 most dangerous jobs in the world, our customers were 11 of the 25.
[00:26:29] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: High voltage steel workers. Like, dangerous situations. And they wanted to be respected. So the whole customer journey was like respecting danger. Respecting danger. Respecting danger. And some of them even get hazard pay because what they do is deadly.
[00:26:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:45] Speaker B: You know, and you watch them on Instagram. And so that became the core of our storytelling to take them through. You know, you're talented, you're amazing, you're dangerous. And they felt seen.
And that became a really big market penetration opportunity. And our go to market plan was to build messaging like that. And it worked. And influencers began requesting us, like, how do I come interact with your brand? Like, and it gritty, you know, and our competitors had been so well established, they weren't worried about us until we started taking market share. And it's a real tough industry to get into because it's so established. It's a connected network that, you know, everybody already knows each other.
[00:27:29] Speaker C: I mean, there's a generational component, too.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: Serious generational component. So we got into that. We got into the psyche of it. And so, yeah, it was so fun to, like, have that revelation. And so when we pitched that to our sales team, they were just. They had goosebumps, you know, and they said, you nailed it, because they felt like they had weapons they could go to war with.
[00:27:47] Speaker C: And.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: And they did. They went and got customers, and it's a lot of fun. And so we woke up a giant, though. We definitely woke up a giant. And there's some great companies in that. That industry, and people aren't going to let you take market share for long, especially threatening their jobs and different things. That's a tricky part of marketing.
[00:28:04] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. That. That reminds me of one of my. Probably not one of the. My favorite super bowl commercial, which is like a. So God made a farmer.
[00:28:14] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, dude. We're both there. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:28:17] Speaker C: It's basically this audience who feels underappreciated, is working hard to support the entire nation.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:23] Speaker C: It's like, hey, we see you. We know how hard your job is, and this product is built to serve you.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And when Harvey said that message forever ago, he didn't know it being a Super bowl ad. He was telling the truth, and that resonated. Have you been to the Tillamook Cheese factory?
[00:28:37] Speaker C: No, I haven't.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: So it is so much on that note, and it is about, like, local farmers and honoring them.
And it's neat because it's a fun factory tour. You get cheese and ice cream. And ice cream is really good.
It's made right there, you know?
But yeah, there's so many huge murals and, like, just big wall art of farmers, and it just make them look amazing. And I'm grateful for that because we've got farmers in our family. But it hit that same note where you felt like they were seen. And I think Telemuk is going to continue to be successful for that way.
[00:29:12] Speaker C: Yeah, I love that.
So this.
This move that you did with little Giant was also the middle of COVID Yeah. And I thought it was what you Built out on premise, that studio.
[00:29:25] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:29:26] Speaker C: If you can talk about that. Because that was a massive pivot. Like, you didn't let Covid get in the way. You actually, like, took advantage of it.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: I felt like, yeah. What helped is our CEO and founder. They had been doing TV advertising for a long time.
And so the question to normally for us to demonstrate a ladder was, is a huge box. You have to go in person, open it up. Ladders are big, right? By design, we couldn't do that. So the question became, how do we continue to demonstrate when we can't go visit people? And so our CEO challenged us with that. And so all of us began putting our heads together. We're like, let's build a huge studio here, multi camera. And so we had lots of connections with Rick Salisbury and others, and so we hired him to help us build the studio. And it was just a great vision. And so marketing team, you know, executives and sales all got together and we wanted to be able to blow their minds. We wanted to be able to give them an experience that was unlike anything they currently have. Because most video conferences, most video training is a talking head. We did nine, you know, PTZ cameras, you know, in room photography. And it went so well that Zoom reached out to us and said, what are you doing?
Really? Yeah. And they had thousand questions for us and like, tell us how you're doing this. And so we did two studios. One that was very much on brand, kind of a rustic, fun feel. And then we did one that was more of a commercial environment where we could have, like a situation room where we could demonstrate all the uses of our ladders. Most people don't know this, but Little giant has over 1200 ladders for the. All the different, like, all these little differences, they make a difference, right? And like, how are you getting to that and being secured? And so lots of different ways to solve problems for lots of categories, but it was all around, how do we keep people safe and then climb. It's a safety company that makes ladders, not a ladder company that has safety. And so we could literally show them the situation. So we had great demonstrators that would show the ladders, but we would bring people into our Zoom environment, and we could walk around the room and cameras coming down the ladder, up the ladder, you know, and then everywhere in the room, you really could get a different visual. And so we began training our retailers as well. And so our retailers do product knowledge trainings to their associates. And so we won awards there. And so it was just neat that Our CEO had this vision and like, how do we pull this off?
And it was absolute blast. And it did. We kept selling.
And so much so that we captured the attention of our, of our retailers that, like, we are not giving up. We're. We're going to solve this problem. And so much fun. So much fun. And it was neat, too, to see our team think about this problem we're trying to solve. And then we did, right? We were originally going to hire a group to do all of the av. We did it all ourselves.
And so just honored by our team and how hard they worked. And it took everybody, it took everybody thinking about it, and just a great vision. And so I was really grateful to that that challenge came because if challenges prevent or present so many opportunities to, like, brightness, break the mold, because you have to, because the mold's not providing food for your family.
And yeah, Ryan is just very much that way. Ryan Moss, great CEO. And so it was a lot of fun to be a part of that.
[00:32:35] Speaker C: Yeah, I love that. I mean, you have, at the end of the day, the same number of pixels as your competitor. And to say, well, we're not going to do the talking head thing. We're going to rethink how we use those pixels instead of getting trapped into, I mean, it's a trap, really. A lot of people will just do the talking head and not even question it. It's like it's, it doesn't even enter their field of view to say, this could be different. This could be better. Yeah, I, I, as you've been through these experiences with multiple brands, and if there's people listening, like, aspiring to, like, okay, I think I can rethink this, or I'm in a new thing that I want to do and I want to take some big swings.
I find that context is really important. So there may be somebody listening who are thinking, who's thinking, like, okay, yeah, I'm going to spend one or two weeks listening and then, like, come up with some big ideas.
[00:33:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:24] Speaker C: Is that accurate? Like, how long should people be spending? Because in my experience, it's like, it's longer than you think. Like, oh, yeah. Listening and then building and then actually pushing something live. Like, what is a good, like give people some context in your experience of what it takes for a success there.
[00:33:42] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely. Test and iterate. Don't just, you know, Tiger woods talks about when he's coming up to a tournament, he gets a thousand touches with a club to a ball. A thousand.
Steph Curry, you know that story, like, how many shots does he shoot before a game? So in a game, it looks like he's making everything, but you didn't see the thousands of misses before that were very intentional. And so I remember somebody telling me that he worked for an agency, and it said, fail fast above the door. So I agree with that. While you're paying attention, like, take smaller swings. Take smaller, slower swings. See some responses while you're paying attention. I was asked to speak last year at one of our customers conferences and, like, talk about, like, you know, branding and, you know, brand guides and things like that. I was like, easy, wait a minute. Like, who is this for?
And so I thought, like, I'd be pretty proud or prideful to go in and act like I know everything. I don't know everything.
And so I called several of their marketing leaders and I was like, talk to me.
What are you doing? What frustrates you? Why? And I got some incredible sound bites. And I was like, what did you say?
Say that one more time. Like, that sounds pretty good. They were proud of themselves for that soundbite. And I was like, whoa.
And that sound bite just kicked open a whole campaign where I was solving it over there, thinking about me, thinking that, please buy our stuff. And over here, this is a real feeling that they have. It's a real problem that they're trying to solve. And so when that happened and it came, I. I dove into that. So when we went and presented, everyone was like, have you been spying on me? You know, and they felt again, feeling understood is the sexiest feeling in the universe. Not being attractive, not being funny, Feeling understood, you know, and selfish. I mean, like, the thing that's hard about that, it's really uncomfortable topic is like, that's how affairs happen at work. People feel understood. That's how, you know, you fall in love with someone. That's how you fall in with a brand. That's how you get convinced to join a club. A faith, a religion is. You feel understood. And so that is such a hard thing to do. And that's why the research is so important.
But you can't just, like, do a bunch of research and try once.
[00:36:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:36:01] Speaker B: You know, our daughter just.
I'm gonna try to keep it together. I'm so proud of her. But she just found out today she got callbacks. She was auditioning for this role. And she's a really nervous. She's 12, you know, and she's like, I'll just. I'll just be. I'll just do this other thing that I'M guaranteed to be in it. I'm like, no, kiddo. Like, you're a Frisbee. You know what I mean? Like, you know? And she's like, what does that mean? I'm like, I don't know.
And she's.
She rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed. She's like, how's this sound? I'm like, kiddo, like, make me believe this is real.
And so we read back to her, and she's like, you sound terrible. I'm like, I know, but at least you said, you know, you know what it shouldn't sound like. And. And she just kept rehearsing all night. And so when she caught. When she text us, she got callbacks. Like, she probably said those lines, I don't know, like, four days straight, to the point that all the kids in the house are like, guys, easy. Also, that's kind of funny, you know, but she got it. And so, because she practiced and practiced and practiced. When she went, it was just automatic. So I think there's this balance of practicing and not, like, AB testing. Like, do a campaign, a small one, while you're paying attention, because if you don't do the campaign and just do the research, you didn't go out for it. There's something to be said about embarrassing yourself, you know, there's something to be said about doing it wrong, because there's more value in the sound bites than there is in not doing it at all. And because I had done, like, six or seven iterations and I got that sound bite, I was like, whoa. Same with the wife that watched her husband nearly die. I mean, they're in the ER and she lost her partner. And. And so listening to that real emotion, it did. It affected me, you know, because that these are customers who live and die by your product. Like, listen. And so this other company, it wasn't like a life or death situation, but it was still a very large emotion.
And so that. That feeling of being understood should be the heart of any story.
And the stories that we love the most are the ones that we can relate to the most. Like, one of my favorite movies is Moana. Like, I'm saying that out here. Like, there's such a genealogy story there. And that. That means a lot to me because of our family history. And, you know, we talked about that a little bit, but, like, that's why I like to. I listen to the Moana soundtrack more than I'll ever admit, you know? Like, so when. When you feel understood that's, that's when you know that you've hit it.
[00:38:22] Speaker C: Yeah. Tell, tell us about Axomo and the like really quick one step, step back is I feel like there's a lot of serendipity in these stories that you're sharing where it's like I was at a booth and someone randomly had this conversation and then you take advantage of that serendipity.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:42] Speaker C: But you, you don't, you can't run across it unless you're out there.
[00:38:46] Speaker B: That's right.
[00:38:47] Speaker C: Moving and listening, Right?
[00:38:49] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:38:49] Speaker C: But the expectation of, hey, you talk to 10 people and you're going to get the story. It may not be 10 people, it may, you need to talk to 50 or whatever. Like. But the point is it's unknowable.
[00:38:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:00] Speaker C: And I think that's where it drives a lot of marketers, especially those that are more like engineer brained. It drives them crazy.
[00:39:08] Speaker B: Right.
[00:39:08] Speaker C: That it's unknowable and you're just out there fishing.
[00:39:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:11] Speaker C: Something may happen.
[00:39:12] Speaker B: No, that's a, that's a great question. And that the, when you, if you can architect serendipity like that, that is the path and marketing, to me, I think everyone would say this about their industry. Marketing is the hardest industry.
And I love what was taught to me. And the question was, what's the highest form of art in the world? What's the highest form of art?
I don't know, Advertising.
And if you were to say that to an artist, I'd be like, you know, it's creating an asset and image that gets people to act.
Get your wallet out of your back pocket because I made this piece of this image, this video, a soundbite, that you're going to act. When you look at Mona Lisa, you're like, is she smiling? Is she not? You know what I mean?
[00:40:00] Speaker C: What do I do about this?
[00:40:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I look at a Manet, a Monet, even modern art, you're like, wow.
But you didn't like, change, you know, And I watch an ad and I'm like, whoa, look what that can do, you know, or walk into a Bucky's and lose your life savings. You know what I mean? Like, so as a marketer, it is your job to be, you know, in the psychology, you know, to be in the, even the physics of the situation, to be in the mathematics of it. You know, there's, there's such a global understanding of human behavior that you have to put yourself in their shoes. And when we, for me, when I think about that, I Want to hear it from them? So literally, dude, in three weeks, I'm going to spend time with our target customer. We had four xomo, so we're a swag management platform. Nobody's dying if they don't get their swag. This is in many ways an unnecessary thing, but it is a necessary thing. And so we built a Persona, and we gave this ICP a name based on current customers. And so we have a current customer and several that use our product exactly as we dreamed. Because for years, we solved these problems. We kind of have six things that our platform solves, and this customer uses every one of them like. Like a dream. And so we call her Queen Vicki.
And so we've had conversations. I've flown out and had lunch with her, but we're actually hosting an event on her behalf in Chicago in a few weeks.
[00:41:24] Speaker C: If you don't know this is a real person, this is a real person the Persona has been named after.
[00:41:28] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:41:29] Speaker C: But when you build, you think about.
[00:41:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I see her photo. We've had lunch, she kayaks, she just had a baby. We sent her a big Taylor Swift gift package for her baby and on the ERAS tour and all that. Right. And so, like, she. She lost her mind with that gift. You know, we did a custom Taylor Swift baby package. And so fun. But in listening to the problems she's trying to solve, why she's trying to solve them, what she hopes people see her as, how we can make her look like she is talented, successful, prepared, she executes. That is why we exist is essentially internally we say, we're here for Vicki. Like, we're here for Queen Vicki. You know, I'll hail the queen. And we do, though, like, everything we build is to get more and more Vickies. And it's the best model, it's the best experience. We are best suited to fit her. She's. We solve all of her problems. And so every time I get the chance to see what she's doing, I'm taking extreme notes of why this, why that. So while we're out there, I've blocked out a chunk of time to, like, talk to me, and I have all these questions prepared. And what I love is she's excited to share it because she's like, it just keeps getting better for me. And I'm like, I know, but tell me more, you know, and so that's exciting. And our customer advisory board, same thing. Like, they're very similar in their education, experience, talent, passions.
And so we have. We've got this cohort of People that we've built our platform for and we've got lots of competitors, but I don't care, like, I'm gonna go crush it for her. And I think that she'll feel like, man, that was really special.
[00:42:57] Speaker C: Yeah, I love that. Such a great story. Thanks, Matt. Thank you so much for joining today. I think there's so many great takeaways in here. If you had to give, like, maybe one more piece of advice for somebody who has, for whatever reason, not taken the swings that they need to be taking marketing, what would you recommend that they go do today?
[00:43:18] Speaker B: I mean, take the swing. But I love what we talked about earlier. Have confidence in that swing. You're talented. The opportunities have come to you. Take the swing. You're going to be so excited when you see the result. And especially if you take, if you miss, like, swing again, because opportunities are going to keep coming to you. And when you make contact that way and that that opportunity does what you hoped it to do, you will change. And I remember, you know, all the failures. And then when it happened, it was like, I did it.
And I recently, and I'll tell a quick story about golf and I had a round of 18 where I played super terrible. The first nine, I just laughed it off. Like, I'm not good. But then the back nine, I did everything right and I was doing the math and I was like, I just, like, I made par in every hole and I got two birdies.
What? You know, and I was like, that'll never happen again.
Why am I saying that to myself? I just did it.
[00:44:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:44:18] Speaker B: And when you see yourself do it, know that you can do it again and again.
And so be willing to fail and be excited about that failure. Because when you do do it, you're going to be so excited about your capability and you're really going to learn, like, why you're here. And I think that, like, you know, belief, not belief, you're here for a reason. Find out why.
And when you use your talent and serve others with your talent, you're going to feel different. And I'm grateful that I've had those opportunities because it did. It changed me. It definitely changed me. And I hope that others get to experience that because of the great risk and the reward that follows. It's exciting.
[00:44:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much.
[00:44:56] Speaker B: Thanks for having me, dude. Appreciate it.
[00:44:57] Speaker C: Been great.
[00:44:59] Speaker A: That's it for today, everybody. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving us a five star rating and subscribe. Subscribe so you don't miss future episodes.
Big thank you to Matt Frisbee for joining us today. You can find him on LinkedIn if you want to talk with him more about storytelling. I'd also strongly recommend that you check out Axomo and their offerings in SWAG Management. They've got something really cool going on there.
Some big takeaways from this episode. Number one make customers feel understood. Matt's little giant breakthrough came from realizing customers and dangerous jobs wanted to respect not just safety messaging.
Number two Test small before taking big swings. Take smaller swings while you build up to bigger swings, like Tiger woods practicing a thousand touches. Iterate through small campaigns before making big bets. Number three do real customer research. Matt's best insights came from actual conversations like the emotional trade show moment or having lunch with Queen Vicki at Exomo. You can find past episodes of the campaign and marketing tools and
[email protected] you can also learn more about the agency and get in touch with a marketing specialist if you want support for your own marketing campaigns.
That's it for now. Thank you for listening and we'll see you back here next week. Until then, keep innovating, keep converting.
[00:46:23] Speaker B: Sam.
