[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hi, welcome.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: In this podcast, we talk B2B marketing and what it takes to know your customer innovate and profit. We're glad you made it. This is the campaign by 97th floor.
Happy Friday and welcome to the Campaign, a B2B marketing podcast about better knowing your audience, innovating beyond best practice, and converting visitors into customers. The campaign is a weekly conversation with B2B marketing leaders designed to fit as much value in 30 minutes as possible. You can catch the campaign live on Fridays at 2 Eastern, and you can find episodes of previously recorded episodes on YouTube, iTunes and Spotify.
This week we are diving deep into the world of B2B segmentation. Nice. And floor. Floor. A few years ago, we realized that so many people in the digital marketing space are very channel focused, which is great. But in order to be effective in channels, you must first understand the audience. And then once you understand the audience, you have to be very clear about the message you want to communicate. And then finally you should bring in the channel. So segmentation is at the heart of that strategy of audience before message before channel. While marketing segmentation is one of the most fundamental elements of a marketing strategy, it's often poorly executed in the B2B space. And that's for a few different reasons. Number one, the B2B decision making process is often much more complex than it is in the B2C world. In addition to that, the B2B products themselves are often more complex and the audiences in the B2B space are often much smaller than they are in the B2C space, making that more difficult to segment them. And then finally, B2B buyers are normally longer term buyers. This, there's this idea of the 95, 5 rule which states that at any given time only 5% of your audience is in market.
And so you need to think about that entire market. However, in the B2B space, given that the they're very rarely in the market, that that can even be further exaggerated. So despite these challenges, today's B2B buyers are discerning and they expect personalized experiences that speak directly to their unique needs and pain points.
And the backbone of that personalized marketing is quality market segmentation. So in this episode today, we're going to be exploring concepts like why segmentation is so important in B2B marketing, the types of segmentation, how you might slice your audience, audience research to add more meat, and understanding each of those slices, and then finally, once we have that segment and that data around that audience, what do we actually do with that? How do we Employ that. So ultimately discussion about maximizing your marketing budget and achieving a better return on your investment by targeting the right customers with the right message.
Our guest today I'm very excited to bring on. He's a true leader in the B2B space with years of experience helping navigate these challenges and achieve remarkable results. Get ready for a deep dive into strategies and insights that can transform your B2B marketing efforts. Rick Galan is the SVP of Growth Marketing at Bill, the financial operations and payment platform used by almost half a million SMBs and 85% of the top 100 US accounting firms to manage their payables, receivables and corporate card spend. Rick's team focuses on generating interest and pipeline and expanding the use of Bill's products among existing customers. Rick came to Bill through the acquisition of Divi, where he was the VP of marketing. He also spent five years at Qualtrics as the head of digital marketing and in various digital marketing roles at E commerce companies like 1-800-contacts and overstock.com Rick, welcome to the show.
[00:03:46] Speaker A: Awesome. Thanks Pax. Excited to be here.
[00:03:48] Speaker B: Yeah, so glad to have you here. So Rick, let's maybe start on what would be considered the basics of segmentation. Why is it so important, especially in the B2B space from your perspective?
[00:04:02] Speaker A: Well, like fundamentally and I think all marketers kind of understand there's like a basic principle that an aligned message or a more specific message reaches an audience better.
So segmentation provides an opportunity to create more aligned messages. I think at a fundamental level though, there is natural segmentation that is built into kind of how we operate our businesses. Sales will naturally segment in order to best best communicate with best set expectations for and best sell the product that you have. And so like for example, large companies will require a very different type of sales process, A a different set of kind of steps in the in along the way as far as hand holding and contracts versus a trial funnel, things like that. Like, so there's natural segmentation that just exists as part of any, like any B2B organization's just general go to market. But marketing segmentation added on top of that becomes very important because in order to, in order to best reach your market, your market needs to be able to see themselves in your product or service. They need to be able to kind of align to that and be like, yes, I see how this could apply to me. And so segmentation creates that opportunity for marketers.
[00:05:25] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, there's that famous quote from Steve Jobs talking about the impact of marketing on the perception of the product, saying, if our marketing is perceived as slipshod, then our product is going to be perceived as slipshod. And the inverse of that is to say, like, hey, if our marketing understands you this well, just imagine how much our product understands you. Like, we know you and we know the problems that you're facing. Trust us to help solve those problems. And yeah, market segmentation is where it all begins.
In fact, there's a stat from McKinsey. They say 77% of B2B companies that use personalized experiences in their marketing increase market share. So it's definitely something everybody in B2B should be doing.
But I think so. I think everybody's convinced of that. But where things start to get difficult is how do we segment that market? You bring up a great point in that there's a whole different business strategy and product strategy that comes in with market segmentation that should have already been done to a certain point. And so you're kind of inheriting, you know, this is who we're targeting from our product and who should be going after.
But I see companies get hung up all the time on slicing. Either they don't slice small enough to get personalized enough, or they slice so small that it's impossible for them to spend their resources getting the marketing materials to a high enough quality for each of these segments. They just spread themselves too thin. Do you have a good litmus test or rule of thumb when it comes to how a company should segment? Perhaps it's related to how big their businesses or team is or. What are your thoughts around that?
[00:07:08] Speaker A: Well, first, I think.
I think it's an unfortunate truth about marketers that we. We often tend to not be as close to the actual business as we probably should be. Right. We spend most of our time looking outward and trying to bring people in, but not necessarily on how the business operates, how the. How the product really works, and for customers and things like that. So I think, like, from a fundamental level, take. I think that most marketers should start by understanding the segmentation that has already been built kind of to your point, like it should already have been done for. For us. We should understand, unless you're starting a company from the ground up and have to define all those things, there is already a natural segmentation that exists within the product for different use cases you may have. In the case of Bill, for example, there's a very obvious segmentation where we work with both B2B or we both work with both companies, direct companies as well as accounting firms. Those are two wildly different audiences that have to solve very similar problems using our software, but in a very different way. So there's a natural segmentation that exists right off the bat between these two very different audiences. But then as I mentioned before, like the sales team is going to segment in order to best sell the product. And you need to understand the reasoning and the movements behind those segmentations. Often it's based on size, right? So, so the sales team will, will do that separation because the sales cycle changes and, but often size is most often size is a proxy for some level of complexity in the sale that is indicative of different use cases for different types of companies. So if you work at Bill, we work across SMB and lower mid market generally. Right. So we work with a lot of companies that are pretty small up to the lower section of larger companies, couple thousand employees, kind of on the high end. Right. And so like there are very different needs, very different messages that resonate with someone who is part of a 2000 person organization and that's maybe a manager or a director in that organization versus the owner of a small business who is, you know, just trying to get their work done. There's very different communication, very different needs. So as far as like where to, where to focus, I think you need to first understand the nuance of your business and take that then into research into your, into what makes the most sense for you.
I'll give you an example of some crazy nuance that exists within Bill. So Bill is a software platform and we also manage a lot of payments. We make money on those payments, right. There is a percentage of all of those payments that go through our system that we make money on.
When we're looking at card payments, depending on where someone spends money, we make a different amount of money. Right. So when you swipe a Visa card at Costco or a Visa card at Amazon, Visa makes different amounts of money and we make different amounts of money. Right. So like the behavioral spending patterns of different types of organizations dictates our segmentation to an extent because they are wildly different profitability margins, they have wildly different behavior. And so understanding that business and really making sure you know how customers move through your product and services is like key point number one.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah. So when rubber meets the road, I think one of the things that we love to do in marketing is we like to talk about philosophy and high level things and what is the best way to do things. And then when the person sits down and actually has to do it, you know, there's not a lot of Clear direction on that. I want to run something by you which is part of the history of Divi that I happen to know is it wasn't built for accounting firms, but it was learned through the process of just like hunting and pecking and trying that this really made sense for accountants. And because they're trying to control for this, they have this problem that DIVI solves, and the customers of those accountants have a problem that DIVI solves. And so there's just like this match made in heaven. But my understanding of the story is it wasn't built necessarily with that in mind, but it was found.
And so what role do you think knowing and testing and finding have in building these segments? Like, do you think it's like, where should markets you spend? Should they be listening to sales calls and talking to customers and building that way? Should they be testing?
Because in the history of Divi, if they had selected a segment and just really honed in on that, there's a chance that they might have missed what ended up being one of their most profitable segments. So, like, what's your opinion take on that?
[00:12:03] Speaker A: Yeah, so I think there's. I think there's answers in two different directions here. I think there's big company answers and then there's little company answers, right? So a big company answer.
Most large organizations that service a lot of customers have a lot of data to work with. Right. And so there is, you know, there are people with PhDs and doing this work, right, of analyzing the data, of doing segmentation analysis on the database, on surveying and building, like, factor analyses of your customers and what's important to them and how they use the product, and using that heavy data modeling to discover pockets of insights that you can then use to find new opportunities. That work is awesome if you can get it.
The challenge I've seen, having been at both big and small organizations, is that it tends to be fairly academic. Like, the exercise is like, cool, now we know this information about our customers, but actually we still don't know what to do with that information.
At a smaller organization, you have an opposite problem where you don't have much data at all. Right? Like, so you are out there. Like you said, the sales team is hunting and finding. And so you're trying to intuit out of these anecdotes what these opportunities are in order to focus on.
My standpoint is honestly that if you, like, even if you have the data, even if you have the research and you have analysts and you're doing cluster analysis on all of your customers, and finding out what's important to them. You should then turn around and work with sales to validate that, to take the insights that you get from your data and to hit the market and to understand like, hey, sales, you've been targeting folks that look like this. Here's what our data says is important to them based on their product usage. How does that track with what you have found in the market?
Excuse me.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I like that.
Getting insight from people who are just looking and talking to the market every single day versus just relying on the data.
Yeah, I like that. Validating. So let's talk about gathering information on these different segments. So actually before we do that, I do want to ask.
I see the ideal way of segmenting as based off of their needs and what they are trying to achieve. So and I go, I mean beyond like price or convenience, but the deep human needs of security, power, esteem. And that as the ideal, which is very difficult to gather, I think is especially difficult to hit on in the B2B world. B2B buyers are often much more practical than B2C buyers or behave more logically, I guess you could say. But at the end of the day, everybody is human and we do have the need for security, power and esteem. And I'm wondering, in your experience, you've been in the B2C world and the B2B world, have you ever seen that applied in the B2B world? And from segmenting or targeting or messaging.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: I apologize for coughing much here. Sorry about that. Definitely have seen that applied the way that I see that shake out in B2 in B2B. Excuse me. Is typically in the feature set that is being marketed to those specific audiences. So there are kind of to the point earlier on larger organizations. Oh man, excuse me, I'm all choked up about it.
Larger organizations will typically have higher security needs. And so some they will index higher on some of those.
Wow. Some of those specific, specific psychological kind of needs that you're referencing. Right. Some of some smaller organizations are more concerned about enabling growth, about protecting. Protecting from downside tends to. Tends to fall up market a little bit. And so what you typically see with B2B segmentation is that.
And the research on your customer database will typically show that these are the things that are more important to each of those types of organizations. And so they end up coming out into the messaging that you apply to the industries that tend to focus on security.
HIPAA compliance, for example, is an.
Is something that is not negotiable for a lot of organizations. And so if you have that feature set, you should. That will end up on the like, industry segmentation content as well as the, as the messaging that you develop for organizations that have that need. So I think, I think those same concepts apply. You're just appealing to a larger organizational need versus an individual psychology. Because businesses have their own psychology, for sure.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: And discovering that is what you're trying to figure out when you're working with sales. When you're looking at the data, you're trying to discover exactly what businesses need as an entity as opposed to an individual on the B2C side.
[00:17:21] Speaker B: Yeah. I want to get on to the topic of what we do with this data and I think this kind of hits it, which is how do you balance the needs of perhaps conflicting or just very different needs of two people within the same organization and your messaging? So you're looking at like a homepage and you know, the, the CFO as well as, I don't know, the accountant is going to both look at that homepage and they both may have wildly different needs out of your product.
How do you balance that or how do you think about the combination? Because when there's the ads or there's targeted emails, that's easy to segment and give them what they want. But when you know they're both going to be the same asset, like how do you balance that? How do you think about that within your organization?
[00:18:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's really challenging for sure. Especially when you're looking at something like a homepage which has to serve the needs of everybody.
I think the, like, the only, the only real answer that I've found is if you are not going to be having a specific message to a specific profile, then you need to be able, you need to provide kind of a choose your own adventure experience with the message you do have. Right. So people will gravitate to what's important to them. And so if you start with like a this is what we, this is what we can do for you kind of message that fairly well resonates with, with, with kind of both audiences. But then, you know, focus on feature sets that can then be looked further into. Right. So you know, we have, we have security and we have opportunities for growth or whatever, and those go off to pages that then go deeper into, into those, into those topics. I think that by simply creating the opportunity for people to find their way to. What matters to them is how you, is how you kind of bridge that gap.
[00:19:15] Speaker B: I like that. I've never loved the homepage where it's like are you this click this button and are you this click that button. And I like what you're saying, which is more here's this feature aspect or benefit and here's this and you can say whichever appeals to you and then you go down that rabbit hole more rather than saying like who are you? Because I think that's very US focused and not you focused, even though it is asking them about them, but they're not interested necessarily in diving more into them, you know?
[00:19:48] Speaker A: Right. That also tends to be a much more enterprise focused thing where there is like large buying groups and are you the cto? Are you the cfo? Right. Like that kind of conversation, like when, like we do a small amount of that on our homepage today because we have like four accountants. Right. As an entirely different segment that could be its own business and a very different product set and feature set. But that's not the same thing as like targeting a same type of company and then like four different roles within the company. Like the, the you should be presenting your solution as a package that applies throughout an organization, but still give people the ability to find out what features matter to them.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yep, yep, I agree. I like that. So let's get talking in more. On the subject of like, what do we do with this data, this information or these segments.
There's an interesting study by Smarter HQ that says 63% of consumers, and granted this is B2C, it says 63% of consumers say that they would stop purchasing products and services from companies that they perceive as being creepy when it comes to their marketing. Like, you know too much about me. This is way too personal.
And yes, it is B2C, but I'd imagine there's some component of that that translates over to B2B as well.
I think we've all, you know, I get these LinkedIn messages all the time that talk about the, the stairs south of campus at byu, as if that's going to compel me to respond to their messages because they know that I went to byu. So it's like personalization that has no impact on the conversation or what they can do for me. So when it comes to personalization, what do you strive for? What are some of your tactics and tools, techniques for taking that data and then creating marketing materials that speak to that audience?
[00:21:39] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. So I think there's a pretty big difference between personalization and like segmentation. Right. So like personalization, typically, the way you're talking about it at least typically tends to be about the individual, right. And teens tends to be about like, I mean usually it's, it's focused on their behavior, right. Which I think is decent personalization, but can get into creepiness territories if you're not careful.
The, the segmentation however, is focused on their business. Right. And so like personalizing to a business is very different from a like interaction perspective.
I also get, you know, I see you went to byu, I also attended college, go whatever, like that kind of, that kind of, that kind of outreach and whatever. That doesn't, that does nothing for anybody. But when I do get outreach that is personalized to the business challenges that I have, that is more interesting. Right.
And so I think that understanding those challenges is, is kind of the key and making sure that your personalization and your message speaks to those challenges. I think that gets easier if you slice finer with segmentation, which is not usually something that's going to happen. Like on your homepage, for example. You can't have a bunch of like a thousand different tiny slices of like micro industries and things like that on your homepage. You have to be broader when it comes to kind of your inbound, which is why you always see like tech and healthcare and retail. Right? Like you see those on every website pretty much because those are kind of the broader swaths. But when you're doing active marketing, you can take that like a couple clicks deeper and be like, you are a plumber and I have software that works specifically for the plumbing industry and here is how. Right. Like, and I don't know that we've ever done anything with plumbers specifically, but, but getting kind of focused in so that you so kind of to your point earlier, so it's clear that I understand the challenges that you have as a business. I understand how our software can alleviate those challenges or how our services can make that better. And I understand, I understand what's important to you. Like that allows you to kind of permeate through all the marketing noise that exists. That's generally for service, you know, organizations or whatever, right? Like, yeah, anyway, so I think that a large part of that figuring out exactly, exactly what to say and to whom starts with, as we talked about before, starts with understanding your data as best you can. Starts with talking to your salespeople. I like to look at the win loss analysis to understand why we are winning in certain places. I think a really underserved area though that like, I think marketers could do a lot more in is actually coordinating with their sales team on like, where are you seeing momentum right now what has you excited salespeople will find a hook and exploit the crap out of that hook. Yeah, right. That's how they do it. And so like you want to help them with their hook. And so like if they are seeing, if they see signs of opportunity in a specific industry and you can work with them to understand that, then you can help them amplify that opportunity in that industry and get in on newsletters for that specific space and go to conferences or trade shows that are specific to that weird little niche. And that creates a lot of momentum with you. With the marketing team and the sales team working hand in hand, you can work with them on the outreach sequences that they're putting out into the market and making sure that those align to the messages that you're also putting out and understanding why customers are saying yes in this space.
I'd also say that like great creative work is born out of constraints.
And getting really focused on a message to a specific audience at a specific, in a specific place is a ton of constraint that allows for a lot of really interesting creativity to happen, which creates really great marketing. That's something that I've been able to learn from the teams that I've overseen here at Bill and at Qualtrics is that creativity that is great marketing and that cuts right through. People love when they're marketed to in a funny or interesting or unique way. They can talk about it. Right. Another thing on just kind of that like micro segmentation, the like small networks create a lot of opportunities. Right. Word of mouth is huge for everyone, despite people not being able to track it very well. Right. It's typically the, the way that, the way that most, most B2B companies grow the most is through a solid word of mouth that happens in smaller networks much more quickly and much more effectively than it does across like all mid market or whatever.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:25] Speaker A: And so like those being able to show up to a small, smaller audience in a purposeful way with the backing of sales with aligned messaging creates momentum, makes you look bigger than you probably are, which is also great. Right. Creates momentum, creates word of mouth and creates a lot of success. And so that's like you can explore by looking at your database and looking at your customers and trying to figure out exactly what makes the most sense. But the exploit part is what's really important. And that's I think born out of like a tight coordination with sales, a tight coordination with your content team to develop specific messaging for those audiences and then hitting it hard, making sure that you are, you know, you are showing up in a, in a. In a positive and creative way.
[00:27:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
Have you experimented with personalized, like auto generated assets pages that are auto personalized based off of IP address or any other identifying information. And have you had success with that?
[00:27:30] Speaker A: I have.
Especially at Qualtrics where we were very enterprise focused. Right. Like we, we would use clear bit enrichment to like IP locate, whatever. That has gotten much harder since COVID Yeah. And one, one challenge that I did find is like, depending on, like, you have to be comfortable with a certain amount of getting it wrong. That happens.
I remember at one point we were personalizing like chat for people that visited the homepage. It would pop up and be like, oh, I see that you're at wherever and blah, blah, blah. And it was like 85% correct at the time using like clear bit enrichment and whatever.
[00:28:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:08] Speaker A: And 85 is not good enough because when some C level whatever at an enterprise organization visits the website and we get it wrong, like they make a phone call to someone and like, then it gets taken down. Right. And so like, you have to make sure that you are comfortable with personalization at scale being incorrect for a meaningful percent of the time just based on how people, you know, work from home or work from different locations or whatever. There are tools like we use today. We use 6Sense to do a lot of personalization. Most of it is focused outward, right where we are targeting. We are building lists and propensity models and targeting people that way.
But we have seen success where adjustments to your homepage or your site copy and content aligning to the individual visiting can have a big impact. I like to take it a step back from personalized and be like, you're probably in health care based on the fact that we think you're at this company. So we're going to tailor the message for health care. Right. And so like, if you get that wrong, it doesn't look wrong, it looks okay.
[00:29:14] Speaker B: So it's almost like changing your homepage to a version of a landing page.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: Right? Like it's. Yeah, exactly. Right. Like, so you're not going all the way to personalize with like, well, how's the weather in Salt Lake today? Or whatever. When you're probably wrong about that information. Information. And it's more about. And it's more about like, these are the key things that matter. These are the segments that matter to us based on the company infirmographics that we get from our personalization vendor or whatever. I think these people have these traits. So I will adjust the copy to align to those needs if those needs are slightly wrong. Oh, well, right. Like most people don't convert anyway. It doesn't look, you don't look foolish.
A lot of the, a lot of the needs across your targets are going to be the same anyway. And so you can get that slightly wrong without having kind of the drama that comes with bad personalization.
[00:30:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's wise. I like that. So I want to wrap up with some takeaways. But before that, I would love to ask about tools that you recommend either tools around personalization, tools for audience data gathering, anything that you could point people to as something that you found success with in this field of segmentation.
[00:30:26] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. So I would be remiss if I did not mention that Qualtrics is a fantastic tool used by basically everybody to do data analysis on their customer and prospect base through surveys. And so that's a wonderfully powerful tool. And they have a ton of resources, at least I think they still do. They did when I was there. A ton of resources on how to do market segmentation and how to use their platform to make, to get that work done. So that's like a super important tool if you have the data. I think win loss analysis is a huge unlock for segmentation. The guys over at Closed here in Utah, they have a fantastic platform to do win loss analysis and to really turn that ad hoc data into structured data that you can use. So that's awesome. We use 6Sense today to do a lot of our personalization, a lot of our targeting and list acquisition for specific segments that we want to, we want to focus on, which allows us then to like, we can put ads in the market, targeted those individuals and so on, on top of that. Right. Like, there's a lot of tools out there that everyone uses, things like Zoom Info and Apollo in order to build lists.
[00:31:38] Speaker B: Do you have success with those?
[00:31:40] Speaker A: I do. The team uses them consistently to build lists. The trick is that you have to intuit from your data, from your insights how to, how to hit those same audiences because you don't always have the same slices. Right. It's just like running LinkedIn ads. You have a certain amount of, you have a certain number of like different attributes you can select within LinkedIn. And so you have to kind of zero in on like, this is what it looks like for companies that have these problems. This is how I target them. And you have to do the same thing with those, with those outreach, like outreach tools, if that makes sense.
[00:32:18] Speaker B: Have you ever heard of or Used go audience?
[00:32:21] Speaker A: No, no, I haven't heard of that.
[00:32:22] Speaker B: So they use direct sale or purchase data, I believe, to then create more targeted audiences that you can then import into other platforms like Facebook.
But the reason I bring it up, I'm going to pitch this and you can say whoever you want to at Divi, but what I would love to have is credit card purchase data en masse for marketing purchase purposes, but specific to B2B credit card purchase data. And I haven't found a great vendor for that. That might be a really great revenue stream for you guys to consider at some point.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: So to be honest, like, because of, because we provide.
At Divi, we provide a credit product which requires us to understand credit rating as part of our segmentation, which is very challenging to get for B2B. Like, we looked for a long time for credit card purchase data for B2B companies and also did not find that. So, yeah, that's. That would be a wonderful resource.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: There's a big need there. So let's, let's hit takeaways for our audience as we wrap up. So some things that I jotted down I thought are really great takeaways. Coordinate with the sales team on where they're seeing momentum and then help them with their hook. Like, these people are out trying to find the honey. And so once they find something, you can come in and amplify that for them. Slice your segments fine enough in order to be able to speak to specific business problems. And that is a really great litmus test for like, am I creating too many slices here? If you're not fine enough to where you can speak to those business problems, then you need to keep going. Great creative work is built out of constraints, and the specific segments allow for that constraint in the creativity. And then small networks create lots of opportunities. Hyper segmentation allows you to hit those small networks really hard. And I have to 100% agree. My experience with B2B is the number one true channel of B2B. Conversions is just word of mouth. Even the channels that your data says convert, there is a word of mouth component in most of those. Like, they may click an ad, but then they're going to go and say, hey, have you used this? What do you. What do you think about these guys? And so, yeah, if you can tap into these small networks that are really well connected and that's, that's. You do that with hyper segmentation. So really great takeaways. Any other takeaways that you'd want to highlight for our listeners before we wrap up.
[00:34:50] Speaker A: The only thing I would add is just like don't get caught up in like the analysis of your database and like that. Like I said before, that tends to get pretty academic and a lot of people just kind of keep churning on their bad data and trying to figure out exactly what the segments look like. Like all of that is great but we're demand gen marketers. We got a job to do right? And so like connect with your sales team. Get out there. The hyper segmentation is really more externally focused. You can't hyper segment your hot your homepage so but like build some small segments and go out there and test, explore and then exploit. Hit it hard when you when you see good signs with the sales team and then find the next, find the next hook and move on to the kind of the next segment. Keep keep keep going. It creates a lot of really fresh, great marketing content.
[00:35:37] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:35:37] Speaker A: Rick.
[00:35:38] Speaker B: Thank you so much for being here. Super helpful. I really appreciate the time you took out of your super busy schedule today to talk with us about segmentation.
[00:35:46] Speaker A: Always good to talk to you Pax.
[00:35:48] Speaker B: Okay, take care. Thank you everybody for tuning in. Tune in next week same time for the campaign.
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